>> first of all, sean hoare who cracked under the pressure, he did drink too much and died last week, he started it, and it was presented -- i just bought a bar in the south of england about nine months ago which is where hugh grant taped me. i was semi retiring from journal into. and the guardian presented it as a fantastic story. it was the british watergate and i was offered the chance to be part of it oovps. the whole point was, if we can label our former bosses, rebekah brooks, andy coulson who are arrested, not criminal masterminds but engaged in a media empire where criminality was rif, if that media empire got david cameron elected as the british prime minister, that's a good story. >> i have a break coming up. since you mentioned rebekah brooks and andy coulson, both former editors of "news of the world," do you have any doubt that they knew phone hacking was going on at that paperer? >> i have no doubt whatsoever. piers morgan was also my editor, but in that time in 1994-'5, it wasn't illegal. you could sit outside someone's house and tap into their phone conversations and r